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HarveyRabbit
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 06:36 am |
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Can I be the spoiler here? Just to shake things up. But I ask you, when is a play not a play? The 10-minute play is a relatively new and popular phenomenon. But I firmly believe that it is possible to tell a story from beginning to end within that time frame, albeit short and to the point. But a 1 page play? Is that a “play”? Or is it a very brief writing exercise?
I could write one page “plays” in huge numbers. But really…am I writing a play or am I just creating a quick skit? By its very nature, there can be no real depth to the story or understanding of the characters and their needs and conflicts. It’s limited to a brief verbal exchange that amounts to very little, at the end of the day. It’s a snapshot compared to a portrait.
Bring it on. Hang me by a rope. But I find this concept of what constitutes a “play” to be a naked emperor.
Harvey
Last edited on Sat Jun 7th, 2008 06:59 am by HarveyRabbit
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Proboscisbunny
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 12:59 pm |
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Have you watched the GI60? It's available on-line...
They all looked like plays to me. Really good ones :)
Vanessa
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 05:15 pm |
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HR:
You're talking like the play is the thing on the page.
It's not.
The play is an action -- an interaction between an actor and an observer -- with some frame, or formal function, to define it.
Whether that interaction ever had a place on a page is not essential.
The play is the action -- and a play is a play no matter how small...
Last edited on Sat Jun 7th, 2008 05:15 pm by katoagogo
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 05:18 pm |
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As to play vs exercise -- I look at every play I write as a chance to stretch and be uncomfortable. That's exercise as far as I'm concerned -- all the way until the end of the first draft -- it's an exercise.
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Edd
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 06:39 pm |
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Last edited on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:36 pm by Edd
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 07:22 pm |
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Check out this postcard play by Gregory Moss --
Play Viewed From a Distance
http://www.emptyspace.org/images/postcardplays/postcard2.png
He is pretty amazing-- and I love this play. It grew out of an exercise to write an unstagable play in one or two pages. He reworked it just a bit for the postcard format.
and all of the postcard plays that year:
http://www.emptyspace.org/0506/currentseason/postcardplays.htm
PS -- for a little more about Greg -- he's this month's featured playwright on Playwright Zoo: http://www.squidoo.com/playwrightzoo
Last edited on Sat Jun 7th, 2008 07:44 pm by katoagogo
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 07:37 pm |
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Short plays are opportunities for creating situations and events that might otherwise be unsustainable in a longer form. They are like a microburst of drama.
Similar to science experiemnts where it has been possible to have the same particle of light appear in two places simultaneously -- but only for a fraction of a second -- possible while seemingly impossible -- and unsustainable.
The short form allows a freedom that might not be possible within the longer form. There is opportunity for attempting the impossible -- and the best short-form writers utilize this. Part of the fun of a great short play is the energy possible in the 'burst' -- it's fun to witness that type of daring.
The short-form has the potential to expand the boudaries of dramatic form. Pretty cool, huh?
Last edited on Sat Jun 7th, 2008 07:37 pm by katoagogo
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Edd
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 08:36 pm |
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Last edited on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:37 pm by Edd
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 09:59 pm |
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I don't think that the short form -- even ultra-short forms -- only include the skit or sketch. And as a person who started out writing for stage by writng sketch comedy for a troupe that I worked for -- I know how hard writing really tight sketch-comedy is.
But there are also some humdinger short peices that are plays -- complete event-driven micro-dramas -- that stand apart from sketches or skits.
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Edd
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 10:07 pm |
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Last edited on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:37 pm by Edd
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Edd
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Posted: Sat Jun 7th, 2008 10:14 pm |
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Last edited on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:37 pm by Edd
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timmy
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 01:05 am |
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As long as people enjoy it...what difference does it make? I'm driving over 400 miles one way tomorrow to see my 10 minute play in Chicago. And I'll enjoy every mile of it (my wife thinks I'm nuts, but what does she know?)
timmy
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leon
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 06:24 am |
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| i think your wife thinks your crazy, timmy, cause you're driving a mo-ped.
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HarveyRabbit
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 07:18 am |
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"Some people call a Big Mac and fries dinner, I don't. "
Exquisite. Edd just summed up my inner argument.
Thank you, Edd.
H
P.S: Timmy, I would drive 4000 miles for a 10-minute play of mine I believed in. Good for you!
P.P.S: Maybe I’m exaggerating, but you get my point.
Last edited on Sun Jun 8th, 2008 07:21 am by HarveyRabbit
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Paddy
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 02:12 pm |
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All art is nothing without an audience. I suppose, if there is an audience for one-minute plays, then there are one-minute plays. I'm not really keen on going into what is a skit - what is a play...because we've done that here before.
Bottom line...all art is exactly what the audience thinks it is.
If it entertains, then it is entertaining.
Paddy
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 06:56 pm |
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Hello Edd -- I wasn't trying to say that you were passing judgement -- sorry about the confusion I caused.
I like your analogy about the fryers. It's a good one.
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Edd
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 07:01 pm |
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Last edited on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:38 pm by Edd
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 07:04 pm |
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Edd:
I do EXACTLY the same thing! (obviously)
I think we're a whole lot alike.
There's this whole thing about perception that I have studied in my intro to Cognitive Science classes about when is a cup a cup -- and when does the shape become a bowl.
If I can find an example of that type of experiment I'll post a link -- because it examines thi type of categorization that we all do --
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 07:35 pm |
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Turns out Wikopedia has the most accessible and pretty good explaination of fuzzy logic and categorization:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_Logic
If anyone wants to take a look. It's interesting.
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shirleyk
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 09:47 pm |
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Kato, thanks for this. I copied and saved it because I feel a play coming on.
Of course my logic in this matter may be fuzzy ...
Shirley
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Basso
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Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 03:08 am |
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Ernest Hemingway wrote a novel of six words:
For sale: baby shoes, never used.
I must confess, of all his books, it is my favourite.
Basso
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playwright_bo
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 07:32 pm |
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I'd just like to tag on that a one page play can actually last longer than a 10 minute play should the playwright choose. So is it then a ten minute play or one page?
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Proboscisbunny
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 10:21 pm |
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Gary Garrison is firm that a 10 minute play should be 10 pages - no more, no less... But...I'm with you...10 minutes is 10 minutes - regardless of how many pages it takes up.
Vanessa
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in media res
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 04:22 am |
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mathewmathewmathew on this forum wrote a brilliant one page play about a new born baby and its mother.
I tried to search for it, but it is too far gone I guess.
it caused quote a stir here if anyone remembers. ( What was the name of it?)
Absolute brilliance in one page. Profoundly moving. Many of you read it at the time. Stunning work. A benchmark for the one-page play.
Brilliance comes very few times in an artist's life no matter what the form.
A play can exist in any form. It does not even need dialogue.
Can anyone help out with the matthew's title?And I would agree, it should be ten pages, not ten minutes as three pages can take ten minutes and 20 pages can take five minutes depending on the director and the actors.
best,
in media resLast edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 04:24 am by in media res
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IanFraser
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 03:31 pm |
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I also have this angst over the idea that a story can be suitably told in one page, or ten pages - even though I have a ten minute piece opening in a few days time, I came late to this concept, and initially sneered at it.
I still sort of do sneer - there's just no way in hell one can compare with the scale of a 100 page piece of character development and storyline, with something so short as 1 or 10 pages.
At best, in my view, one can make interesting 'cartoons' that mimic the formal structure of theatre, and perhaps mimic it very well - but it defeats the object in some ways, to try suggest that the level of depth of audience involvement can ever be as thoroughly achieved.
If anything, it gives in to the ADD nature of modern society to a degree that undercuts the real value of theatre. Some of which is the immersive and potentially profound experience of witnessing a live event unfold at its own pace.
"See, I can go watch six 'plays in an evening - I'm cultured!"
Or worse
"See, I can write a whole play and EMOTIONALLY MOVE people - in ten minutes."
My response is 'So what?'
I mean, I have a ten minute work opening down in Florida as part of a festival of 'political plays' - but I don't believe my piece is 'theatre' - its just a storyboard of scenes and events that mimics the larger construction of a formal theatre piece, and if anything, indulges audiences who DO think this genre is somehow valid theatre.
Like people who go to Vegas and look at the Eiffel Tower replica, and think that now they never need to go to Paris, 'because they've seen it'. And who will then argue that they've genuinely and honestly seen and absorbed the tower and what it means - despite having only seen a replica, completely out of context.
If one is emotionally moving people in ten minutes or less, then I'd suggest it says a whole lot of not particularly good things about the consciousness and perspective of the modern audiences, who are raised primarily on transient pop culture, and thirty second adverts for consumer goods.
It still doesn't mean or prove, that the writer of a ten minute piece or shorter, can create formal theatre - or for that matter, that the audience and fans of this shortform sketch concept, can even percieve or determine the worth, artistic value or potential of the writers concerned.
So yeah, I write the occasional ten minute pieces, and they get staged - but I see the genre purely as flimsy and fairly facile adverts and cartoonish imitations of my actual theatre-work. To think otherwise would be, for me, indulging in self delusion.
/pedantic formal rant over with :P
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HarveyRabbit
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 06:43 am |
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I agree with much of what you say, Ian, though I do have a great respect for the 10 (or 15 or 20) minute play. If you can craft something that tells a story from beginning to end within that time frame and manage to impact an audience in a real way – even for just a moment – then it has legitimized itself. What I cannot fathom is how something written on one page can constitute anything other than a writing exercise. How can one possibly call that a play without denigrating the concept of what a play represents?
As you say, this is an increasingly ADD afflicted society, so I find this trend towards shorter and shorter plays (with bigger and bigger reading/administrative/prize-giving/punitive/punishing/insulting/f**k me, I’ve written a play and now I’m being fined for having f**king written it! fees) very dispiriting.
I see the 10-minute play as a calling card; an invitation to something bigger. It can be beautiful in itself, but ultimately it's a siren’s call.
One page? A press-up.
Just me.
H.
Last edited on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 07:19 am by HarveyRabbit
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IowaScribe
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 08:20 pm |
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If a short play is not really a play, is a collection of related short plays a play?
And if the answer to that is yes, then how do those plays have to be related? By theme? By setting? By common characters? Or can the collection be unrelated -- related only by playwright? I once saw a colllection of lesser-know Tennessee Williams works, all one-acts, all of varying length. Some were REALLY short. It was an evening's worth of entertainment, and the plays were unrelated. Still, it seemed like a play to me.
Is a play that cannot possibly be staged really a play? I've read several, and they seem like plays to me.
Does a play need a plot? I've seen some that are considered classics, and for the life of me, I can't figure out what the plot is in some of them.
I've seen a play without dialogue. I didn't like it very much, but it was certainly a play.
In my mind, a play needs subtext. And yet, there is very little subtext in most musicals -- the subtext is sung to us. But I accept most musicals as plays -- some of them very powerful plays.
And really, if you want to get down to defining what is and what isn't a play, a lot of good farces do not fit the classic definition of a "real play."
No, I think we all do ourselves a disservice if we limit ourselves by definition of what is and what isn't really a play. Once we put boundries on our work, we inhibit our imagination and stifle our creativity. That's when we stop being writers and start being journalists.
I have my own rules for my own writing, however. To me, the most important one is, "do my characters seem real?"
If my characters seem like real people to me, I consider what I've written a play, regardless of the length, plot or lack therof, theme, etc. Then I try to figure out if there's an audience to watch these characters.
If my characters seem "cardboard," I consider what I've written a sketch, and I decide between either attempting to turn the sketch into a play -- or I lose the sketch and move on to something else.
But that's just a personal standard. I'm sure everyone else has their own.
When is a play a play? When the playwright TRULY believes it is.
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Basso
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 02:50 am |
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Is it the length of a play that is important, or how well it is written? I've had to sit through two tedious hours of character development before, and I'm sure I didn't benefit from such sitting.
it gives in to the ADD nature of modern society
I find this comment interesting. It seems arrogant to assume that this generation has a lesser capacity for concentration then previous ones. What would one base this on? In Shakespeare's day people brought their meals and alcohol with them to theatre events, and were often talking with one another as the play unfolded. I think, in fact, that the opposite is true, that we have too much attention, and therefore do not demand enough from those who try to engage us through art. We sit there like obedient school children, and accept the most appalling excrement, and then hold it worthy enough for discussion.
What is an "ADD nature," anyway? One might say that a society has a predilection for ADD, but surely not a nature. Some sort of social conditioning will make us conform in a variety of ways, but if ADD is a nature of one society, then it will be equally part of another; modern or ancient. To hearken back to the "good old days" is a condescension of our own life; a practice that I would not align myself with.
There is no more problem today with people's attention spans then there was in any other era. The only discernable difference is that now we categorize ourselves with different labels. When I was young my parents generously told me I had a mental block when it came to school work, whereas now I would be branded with the equally horrid, and erroneous, term of attention deficit disordered.
One page, two pages, ten, or one hundred pages...writing well should be the purveyor of whatever art that may lie within a playwright heart.
Basso
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HarveyRabbit
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 05:59 am |
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All I would say to you is that humankind is continually evolving and changing. Our world is changing with every generation, getting faster, louder, less patient (“dial-up” is already an anachronism), more efficient, less personal, more spoiled with technological advances all the time, making a commodity of our time and attention. To deny that is to deny evolution itself.
Instant gratification has become almost a way of life for many people. Zap it in the microwave, Tivo it, sample it, abbreviate it, LOL or cry into your beer. However you might like to wish the world to be, the fact remains that the faster it moves, the less its capacity to concentrate becomes.
When I was a kid I used to have to wait for the television to “warm up.” Now, if I have to wait for something to download in more than five seconds I get impatient. Eras change, as do people’s lifestyles.
Please don’t get me wrong: I do not denigrate the idea of someone writing a page of dialogue and having it be presented as entertainment (along with many, many other different pages, obviously). But what I question is calling them “plays.” Is a 30 second piece of film a movie? A page of prose a novel? Yes, I’m being pedantic, but I think it’s important.
Personally, I could never write 60 seconds of dialogue and try to pass it off as a “play.” An exercise or a thought, an idea, a whimsy, yes, but never a “play.” I would not only feel dishonest to whomever I was telling that I had just finished a new “play”, but I would also feel as though I was besmirching all of the hard hours and toil and thought that I’d put into my…well, plays.
Last edited on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 06:01 am by HarveyRabbit
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timmy
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 04:04 pm |
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Fahrenheit 451 / Ray Bradbury
The man was a genius in his forecasting of the oncoming speed of society and its influence of the "shortening" of our attention spans, its ramifications on society's literature, etc.
timmy
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Martin H
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 01:05 pm |
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I wrote a number of 'one minute plays' as exercises a while back. I'd call them sketches or skits personally, though I did write a one page play I think is genuinely a play (at the same time as it's been incorporated as the prologue in my last completed full length play, Empty Bowl). That one, 'inch foot', because of its intricate sound effects, would actually take five to eight minutes to perform. For different reasons, the same is true of the one page epilogue, 'not twice this day'.
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